Roswell UFO Crash: A Hoax?
Roswelllll, maybe not. Bernie O. stirs the pot to mark World UFO Day. Stand by for tar and feathers.
by Bernie O’Connor - bernieolooksforufos@gmail.com
Back in 2008, I was the host of a short lived show entitled Lehigh Valley PAranormal (Like the clever type treatment for PA and paranormal?) on our local NPR station, WDIY. As the title suggested, I concentrated on all things weird in the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania. And believe you me, we have plenty of homegrown weirdness here.
I interviewed a practicing Witch Coven that performed rituals at the spooky Hexenkopf Rock, the scene of many paranormal anomalies. Hexenkopf means “Witch’s Head” in German and the eerie rocky outcrop definitely does resemble the stereotypical profile of a Witch. It’s located in Easton. I chased the many ghosts that frequent the Moravian Book Shop, which also lays claim to being the oldest bookstore in America.
I interviewed one of the abductees in the famous Allagash Abduction case (two of them were local boys), a hypnotist that conducted past life regressions, a Tarot Card teacher, Katherine Ramsland and Dana DeVito authors of Bethlehem Ghosts, and Reading native Charles J. Adams III, who’s written more local ghost books than you can point a Night Vision Camcorder at.
Roswell, New Mexico is quite far from the Lehigh Valley, Pennsylvania, so you might be asking yourself how that locale worked its way into a Pennsylvanian radio show. On December 25, 2005, the local paper, The Morning Call ran an interview with a man named Walter Klinikowski, originally from Catasauqua, a township in the Lehigh Valley. The title of the article was: “Catasauqua native navigated way through WWII, Roswell, Walter Klinikowski, 84, has done what most ‘would never do.’”
Since I collect and research all things UFO, I saved the article in my files. Three years later, in 2008, when I was producing the show, I immediately dug out the clipping to see if I could find Mr. Klinikowski and ask him for an interview. I considered him a local hero for his service to our country and the possibility of adding his testimony to the Roswell discussion.
Even though the internet was in its relative infancy, I was able to quickly track him down. He and his wife, Margret were living in El Paso, Texas. I reached out to him and he was more than happy to talk with me. At the time he was 87, but spry and fully alert. When you listen to the recording of the interview, which is below, this will become apparent. He passed away two years later at age 89.
Below is that original audio interview as well as a verbatim transcript of our conversation. At times it may seem awkward, but transcribed conversation always does. It was made from an old scratched CD, so the quality is not the best.
The phone interview lasted for over an hour, but it had to be edited down to this short version due to the show’s time restrictions. The original tape has been rerecorded over years ago.
Col. Klinikowski dismisses Roswell UFO Crash:
Transcript:
Bernie O’Connor: UFOs: Unidentified Flying Objects. What are they? A controversial subject for sure and one of the most controversial cases in Ufology is Roswell. So did an alien spacecraft crash in New Mexico on July 7th 1947? Our next guest, retired Air Force Colonel, native of Catasauqua and recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross Walter Klinakowski, has the answer.
Hello Walter!
Walter Klinakowski: Hello!
B. Did something crash in the desert outside of Roswell in July 1947?
WK. Yes!
B. Was it a government program?
WK. Well it turned out to be, and yes. Nobody knew what it was at the time.
I wasn't even in Roswell when it happened and when I got back to town there was some mention of it. The debris landed on my cousin by marriage's ranch and his name is Dewey Stoke and he never saw this stuff because it was picked up by the Air Force people from the base of Roswell and they took the stuff and shipped it off to Wright Patterson Air Force Base which was the home of what was then called the Air Technical Intelligence Center. I later wound up as the Director of Collection for that outfit and I saw what this stuff was, and what it was to me was a radar reflector. We had, at that time, a top secret project.
B. Was this top secret known as Project Mogul at the time?
WK. Yes. We had to know when the Soviet Union fired off a nuclear device and the problem with that was we didn't have satellites in those days so they had these high altitude balloons which flew above the atmosphere and they had these radar trackers on them so we could find out where they were.
Anyway when I got up to Wright Patterson I went into a hangar where they kept this stuff and I picked this thing up and held it in my hands, it was about six feet across and it was definitely a radar reflector.
There was no special metal on it or anything like that.
Anyway the guy who put out all the stuff about the midget aliens and he needed the three caskets and all that stuff, all a bunch of crap! Then it was latched on to by a guy, oh, I can't think of his name, he lives up in Canada someplace in Nova Scotia.
B. Stanton Friedman?
WK. Yeah, Friedman, and he called me and we talked, I told him listen, I don't think it's anything to worry about. On the 50th anniversary (July 7, 1997) of that happening, we had a reporter from the El Paso Times who went up to Roswell and he was interviewing a lady who was selling souvenirs. She was so busy selling stuff, she turned to him and he asked her ‘did an alien ship land here and does it really matter?’ (Laugh) And it's been great for the town. They make all kinds of money off of this stuff and I'm happy for them. Of course, let them do it. What the heck?
And my daughter who died of brain cancer. Er, she went to her death bed believing that I was a part of the government cover-up on this thing.
B. I'm sorry to hear that about your daughter but I can see with the mythology that's sprung from this occurrence. Now you mentioned that the debris was found on your cousin’s ranch?
WK. Yeah.
B. Okay, now Mac Brazel, he supposedly was the person to discover that. Do you know how he fit in? Or was this just something that sort of took on a life of its own?
WK. Yeah.
B. Okay, so were you familiar at all with the Major Jesse Marcel, Colonel William Blanchard? Any of those people?
WK. Well I know Butch Blanchard, I used to fly with him.
B. Okay, yes he was the Commanding Officer stationed at Roswell?
WK. He was the Commanding Officer of the base at that time.
B. Okay and did you guys ever talk about what went on or because it was a secret balloon project that was something that just...
WK. Something we didn't pay a whole lot of attention to. I mean it was nothing. It was a radar reflector off of a high altitude balloon.
B. Walter, you referred to three small caskets earlier. What do you know about them?
WK. The Ballard funeral home which was the one that got the request for three tiny coffins…
B. Right.
WK. My wife’s great aunt lived in the funeral home and she knew everything that went on in that funeral home.
B. Okay.
WK. And she said that “they never had any little caskets or anything like that. They would never order anything like that.”
B. If you go to a UFO convention and you mentioned Roswell, fist fights will break out. Throwing your testimony into it I'm sure will only heat up the argument. Now, you wrote a letter, didn't you, with two other officers?
WK. Well with two other full colonels and a fellow named Weinbrenner (Col. George R. Weinbrenner)1 who was the Commander of the Foreign Technology Division and Walter Vitunac (Col. Walter Charles Vitunac) who was the former Director of Collection and then me, who was the Director of Collection.
And we put this letter out because there was a Delta airline pilot at that time who was very much interested in this and he wanted to know if it was real. So we convinced him and he joined our forces, but if you Google me you can find the letter out there someplace. (Bernie’s note: I have been unable to find this letter online. Perhaps one of our readers can? If so, please email me the link. Thank you!)
B. When you say you’re a collections officer at foreign technologies, what does that really entail? Because I don't understand foreign technologies.
WK. Foreign technology is a knowledge of all foreign weapons systems that's one of the things that it includes. And for instance when the Cubans took the missiles into Cuba, I was the Commander of the team that inspected those missiles when the Soviets brought them out. I was out on a ship with the Navy, the LG14. We verified that they were indeed the missiles.
B. Being Jesse Marcel was the Intelligence Officer, would it be to their benefit to create a smoke screen story that they actually did have a flying saucer.? Would that be something plausible in terms of the I-Spy, shadowy world of information, disinformation?
WK. No, I don't think so.
B. The story of Roswell, do you want to sum that up in one word?
WK. Uh… A HOAX!
B. Well, I want to thank you very much for giving us your time and I think you shed a lot more light on the mystery.
WK. Thank you. Bye.
The Roswell Incident: Could it be a fairy tale?
As Colonel (Ret.) Walter Klinikowski stated, “And it's been great for the town, (Roswell) they make all kinds of money off of this stuff and I'm happy for them. Course, let them do it. What the heck? “
Yes, Roswell has become a money maker. Look at the dozens of books, YouTube channels, Conferences, media personalities, and tourism it has spawned. That’s OK though, UFO research is a labor of love, so a little help paying the bills while sky-watching is greatly appreciated.
There is no doubt that this curated belief of the idea that an alien spaceship crashed at Roswell has grown into a cultural phenomenon. Ask the average person about Roswell, and you’re sure to get the same answer as that of a hardcore Ufologist. As a bonus, the sinister government cover-up is elbowed into the conversation with no additional prompting
The problem with Roswell, as well as with any other classic UFO cases, is the fact that one small bit of new evidence presented—the offhand comment by an authority figure, or the rediscovered testimony or official document—can upend the whole belief scenario. Humpty-Dumpty could have a great fall.
So the question remains, what to do with this new Roswell testimony from 17 years ago?
Simple. Take up the challenge. The first question I have to ask is, if Colonel Klinikowski spoke to multiple Roswell researchers including Stanton Friedman, why is his testimony only really coming to light now? Surely his military rank and reputation warranted a second look and an in depth investigation? Why was it pushed aside and seemingly ignored? At this point in time it’s neither here nor there. So much time has gone by and all the parties to this discussion have passed on, so little can be done to get an answer to my question.
We need to start almost from scratch looking into Klinikowski’s claims. We need dedicated boots on the ground in New Mexico to try and follow up on these new leads. Let’s start by looking into New Mexico’s property records to find out where Dewey Stokes property was in relation to where the present day debris field is. This search, if successful will also and most importantly confirm, that such a person existed. From here we could start to trace any living family members or relatives.
The next step would be to find out the maiden name of Margaret Klinikowski (I couldn’t) who is from New Mexico and again, look for any relative that is still alive. Do they know anything about the Aunt who lived at the Bullard Funeral home? Do the remaining family members, and Dewey Stokes family, remember anything from 1947? They may be cooperative or they may want nothing to do with the past.
Maybe all the leads have grown cold, or maybe there is new evidence sitting out there that could prove or disprove Roswell once and for all. But either way, an unbiased, determined investigator never knows until they try. Remember, question everything and leave no crash site unturned!
If any reader of THE OBSERVER wants to take up this research challenge, and you get results, please let me know and I’ll write you up. But it better be verifiable. Reach me at: bernieolooksforufos@gmail.com
Who knows, your name could go down in UFO history, or you could become the most hated person in Roswell.
“Man occasionally stumbles over the truth, but most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.” -Winston Churchill, 1936
As for my radio show Lehigh Valley PAranormal, (there’s that clever type trick again. I know, ENOUGH already!) when the new program director came in, it was decided that the show’s content “wasn’t, well, upscale enough.” But I’m grateful to WDIY and all the great people there for giving me the opportunity to learn radio production. Now, wouldn’t it be interesting if a six-and-a-half minute chance interview from 17 years ago might drastically and completely change the Roswell narrative?
(Black and white Roswell photos courtesy, Fort Worth Star-Telegram Photograph Collection, Special Collections, The University of Texas at Arlington Library, Arlington, Texas.)
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